MSNBC Scarborough Country Transcript

...With me now is presidential candidate and former Illinois Senator, Carol Moseley-Braun, and Peter Flaherty of the National Legal Policy Center. Peter, before we get to you, I want to go to the Senator first. And, Senator, before we talk about Jesse Jackson, let's talk about your presidential campaign. How is it going out there on the campaign trail?

FORMER SENATOR CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's going great. I am in New York and just left the DLC 21 and a group of young activists, and they were enthusiastic and it was really, really inspiring.

SCARBOROUGH: Senator, what's your take on the charges against Jesse Jackson, that he's a shakedown artist and he's using his operation to enrich himself personally. Is that fair?

BRAUN: You know, I am reminded of a slogan or statement made by the late Mayor Daly of Chicago, who asked the question, what trees do they plant? I would ask the question, what have they done for the community? What has their service consisted of?

Certainly, no one is perfect. But Reverend Jackson has done more to help inspire people, to lead people to a better place, to bring them together, to serve his country. And really at the end of the day, that kind of service to your country, it requires a great deal of sacrifice. And so, while there are critics out there and they may have one point or another they don't like about Reverend Jackson, it is undeniable that he has helped move the agenda, he has helped define issues, and he has uplifted a people. For that, I think all America should at least recognize and commend and congratulate him for that public service.

SCARBOROUGH: Peter Flaherty, let me bring you in now. Obviously, you're a white guy who went to Jackson's convention. It seems to me if African-Americans across America want this guy to be the presumptive head of their causes, it's not really up to you or me or other white people to stick our noses in their business. Respond is this.

PETER FLAHERTY, NATIONAL LEGAL POLICY CENTER: That's just the point. I don't think a lot of black people view Jesse Jackson as their leader. In fact, if you look at the public opinion polls, his support of African-Americans is way down. But I'm not here in Chicago to tell black people who they should support for president or who they think their leader should be.

I am here because there's a conference taking place, and it's not about civil rights. It's not about grass roots organizing. It's about the diversity business. These people have created a whole industry where you have diversity consultants, diversity experts. They work for big companies. They feed out money and business to their friends in organizations like Jesse Jackson's, and they're doing very well.

And I think what the Supreme Court did yesterday will just mean it's a growth industry for them. And you will see people like Al Sharpton running for president. He's not running because he thinks he can win. He's running so he can get a piece of the diversity industry pie and become the new Jesse Jackson.

SCARBOROUGH: Senator, Peter Flaherty has said for some time that Jesse Jackson is nothing more than a shakedown artist. Respond to those accusations.

BRAUN: Well, now, before I get to respond to that, I am just horrified at the notion that in this day in age, we are still talking about the African-American community, all however many millions there are of African-Americans in this country having a leader. I mean, who's the leader of the white community? Who is the leader of the Hispanic community or Asian community? That's just—that's backwards thinking. And that's not where this country is.

SCARBOROUGH: Senator, in all fairness, couldn't you have said that, though, about Dr. King in 1963, 1964?

BRAUN: But that was different, because remember, Dr. King was literally leading a movement to take down legalized apartheid in this country. We have not been in this place since the 1960's, happily because of what the Supreme Court did yesterday, we are, I think, focused and pointed in the right direction in terms of race and race relations in this country.

Hopefully we will be able to make the next step to come together as one American family, as one community, getting beyond race and racism and the things that have been really wedge issues in American civil society for so long. But to start off and to accuse Reverend Jackson of...

FLAHERTY: Oh, come on, Ms. Moseley-Braun, you have some very nice-sounding rhetoric here that sounds very nice coming together and all that. But if you walk...

BRAUN: Well, I am glad. Thank you.

FLAHERTY: ... walk into the conference across the street, you hear all kinds of hate speech all the time. Congresswoman Barbara Lee said the Bush administration was a white supremacist administration. You have NASCAR here, and a representative of Rainbow Push stood up and said that NASCAR is the last bastion of white supremacy in this country. This is a group, NASCAR, that's kicked in $100,000, sent speakers to the conference and is playing ball with Jesse Jackson. But they're in a current state of turmoil, because the more you give Jesse Jackson, the more he demands.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: So, Peter Flaherty,

FLAHERTY: So Jackson has him right where he wants him.

SCARBOROUGH: So, Peter Flaherty, your position is that Jesse Jackson is doing a shakedown on NASCAR.

FLAHERTY: Oh, absolutely. Freddie Mac is here. Now, that's a government-sponsored enterprise. They get $10 billion of benefits from a taxpayer every year. In 1999, Jesse Jackson accused them of racial discrimination and urged shareholders to sell their stock. The financial support started at Jackson's operation right after that. Jackson's criticism ceases right after that, and the taxpayers, Joe and Carol and me, were all supporting Jesse Jackson whether we want to or not.

SCARBOROUGH: All right Peter. Senator, I want you to respond to something that Peter Flaherty said. He said that speakers are actually calling President Bush a white supremacist. Is that actually happening inside—is that actually happening inside of Reverend Jackson's conference?

BRAUN: I have not heard anything like that. I can't—I mean, since I am not there right now, I can't monitor, and have not monitored everything that has been said. Of course, hateful speech is always to be repudiated. But at the same time, think of all of the good things that are going on. There are people talking about how to get economic development in communities, how to create jobs. There's nothing wrong with that. If anything, that should be encouraged.

SCARBOROUGH: All right. I'm sorry I have got to cut you all off. Senator, thank you so much for being with us. Same to you, Peter Flaherty.

And we will see you back tomorrow night on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.